Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fascism in Ambient Music

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fascism in Ambient Music

    I'll leave this one here, apparently we're all fascist satanists cos we wear black, have Hitler-undercuts and he used loudspeakers too:listening:

    http://www.femmecult.com/news/fascism-in-ambient-music/
    Ghost Signs - Ambient tape loops and guitars : https://ghostsigns.bandcamp.com https://soundcloud.com/xxiainxx http://facebook.com/xGhostSignsx

  • #2
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense
    SoundCloud // FreeSound // Twitter
    Get exposure for your electronic music through WEATNU.COM independent promotion network.
    "Shortwave" - collaboration album with Ager Sonus

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by iainx View Post
      I'll leave this one here, apparently we're all fascist satanists cos we wear black, have Hitler-undercuts and he used loudspeakers too:listening:

      http://www.femmecult.com/news/fascism-in-ambient-music/
      OMG....

      We all know, that music played backwords reveals sataic stories, but this that we are all faschists...

      We recently hat a discussion about fascism in music (see the thread "Burzum" for details - some peole in the "dark" scene really seem to have a certain fascination for fascist aesthetics), but what this guy mixes together... unbelievable... a black trouser and a modern undercut makes no nazi.

      OK, yes, to be honest: we all know, that some music played backwards reveals satanic messages... :biggrin:

      Anyway: for those of you who speak german, I strictly recommend this book about violent music and musical violence: https://books.google.de/books?id=S_G...page&q&f=false - this author finds agression in nearly every type of music with the one exception of classical music - and i am afraid, that even there (in symphonic works) he could find aggressive undertones. Perhaps only Bach's organ works an some string quartets are tolerable to him. He even accuses the Beach Boys of making "violent music." After the first shock, you will find the book really funny, I promise! But be warned: too much loughing may cause shortage of breath! :rotf:

      And I like my black army trousers - on festivals, I need them to store my money, freshly purchased CDs, antiallergic medicine, my phone etc. in their wide pockets... And black clothes are mandatory there: like a dinner jacker on an opera ball. :mrcool:
      Latest Album (Sept. 2020): Tenth Region Of The Night
      Soundcloud - Bandcamp - Youtube - Essentia Mundi - Winter-Light

      Comment


      • #4
        My word, what a terrible bit of journalism. Trying to shoehorn a genre as ill defined as ambient (we've had the discussions... ) into a set of overreaching generalisations, opinions expressed as fact, strange notions extrapolated to bizarre ends...

        Her description of an ambient audience is just hilariously strange, reminds me of the audience at a Horrorist gig or something. And MDMA as the drug of choice at an ambient gig? Really?
        Latest release: never to be repeated

        Hearthis | Soundcloud

        Comment


        • #5
          On the contrary, I would turn the accusation around, saying that the author is the Fascist one for spreading Fascist ideas and interpretations to places where there were none before. I have never heard of any of the music examples that were mentioned, so I can't comment on that. But I believe that we ambient folks are some of the friendliest beardiest people around; I certainly am at least.

          Lesson of the day: "Do not criticise things you do not understand, because you will most likely make a fool of yourself."
          https://thegreatschizm.bandcamp.com

          Comment


          • #6
            I've been called a lot of things...but never, ever a facsist. Noisy, yes!
            Last edited by windspace; 10-25-2015, 07:15 PM. Reason: Typo

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not doubting there are fascist ambient gigs, people of many differing political persuasions enjoy a wide variety of music. The ambient zone I am mostly into doesn't lend itself too well for those sorts of images or emotions.

              But, as I have been known to shout at Robert Rich sleep concerts: POWER TO THE POLICE STATE!

              Comment


              • #8
                What a load of utter claptrap that article is. Pseudo-intellectual proselytising at its worst. Although I never realized there was a stage beyond so-bad-it's-hilarious, so I guess I've learned something after all :eek:

                I can't see this theory gathering much impetus, though - it's impossible to actually finish reading the article...my brain eventually refused to take in any more - a bit like eating garbage, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth and makes you sick :puke:
                My new album is available now, here: https://thoughtexperiment.bandcamp.c.../supersymmetry
                Check out my (hopelessly out-of-date) SoundCloud page: https://soundcloud.com/thought_experiment

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Thought Experiment View Post
                  it's impossible to actually finish reading the article...my brain eventually refused to take in any more - a bit like eating garbage, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth and makes you sick :puke:
                  But when you did it, you can say proudly: I read it and I survived it!
                  Latest Album (Sept. 2020): Tenth Region Of The Night
                  Soundcloud - Bandcamp - Youtube - Essentia Mundi - Winter-Light

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by betadecay View Post
                    But when you did it, you can say proudly: I read it and I survived it!
                    Yep, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

                    Or is that a bit fascist...?

                    ;)
                    Latest release: never to be repeated

                    Hearthis | Soundcloud

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Horseshit :roll:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        130627_DISM_NaziSocialClubs.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

                        Typical ambient concert
                        SoundCloud // FreeSound // Twitter
                        Get exposure for your electronic music through WEATNU.COM independent promotion network.
                        "Shortwave" - collaboration album with Ager Sonus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Windspace View Post
                          I've been called a lot of things...but never, ever a facsist. Noisy, yes!
                          I'm not seeing you called a fascist in the article. It specifically references a few artists and labels who've appropriated facist and violent imagery to... whatever end. If you're using a Totenkopf symbol or naming your album "Buchenwald", then perhaps that warrants a discussion. I think the article raises some solid points about what appropriating sexist, fascist, or violent imagery in your work says -- "the ways we accept representations of brutality and write it off as art for art's sake".

                          Toying with this sort of imagery is probably as old as fascism and naziism itself. Throbbing Grisltle at various points used it (the logo for their record label is a photo of Auschwitz) -- and various bands I have liked/admired the music of have some outright embarrassing fascinations. It's not too much of a stretch to ask artists to be responsible with imagery like that; it's a cheap shorthand that comes pre-loaded with controversy, like a child discovering swearing. The artists use shocking imagery to get attention, then when someone calls them on it, they dismiss it.

                          I don't think the article is all that well put together; for starters, most of the bands discussed don't meet even the most generous definition of Ambient -- William Bennett's Whitehouse and Cut Hands are harsh, assaultive projects, and Death in June have traded in a variety of gothy-tinged whatever for a million years. On the other hand, if someone is using fascist or nazi imagery to promote their new album of pastoral drones, or names a few tracks after serial killers, or something of that ilk, shouldn't we question it, just a little? Even if the music itself is 'dark', maybe folk should be a little careful with the images they use to associate with it. Doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Toaster View Post
                            Originally posted by Windspace View Post
                            I've been called a lot of things...but never, ever a facsist. Noisy, yes!
                            I'm not seeing you called a fascist in the article. It specifically references a few artists and labels who've appropriated facist and violent imagery to... whatever end. If you're using a Totenkopf symbol or naming your album "Buchenwald", then perhaps that warrants a discussion. I think the article raises some solid points about what appropriating sexist, fascist, or violent imagery in your work says -- "the ways we accept representations of brutality and write it off as art for art's sake".
                            Except you have generalisations such as:

                            How does wellness, neo-paganism, techno, and Hitler all tie together? What is the common element?

                            The answer is ambient music. Post-internet hipsters pay homage to atonal sound design sets and installations that play for several unruly hours. They aggressively hush other members of the audience who feel like discussing the scene or sound. They are not ashamed of their utilitarian uniform, their identical blouses and tight Cheap Mondays. Ambient music is their god, and 14-hour sets are their spiritual journeys. They sit side-by-side, engaging in a type of competitive deep listening where they try and out-listen and out-trance and out-intellectualize the person next to them. Amongst this community, there is an intrinsic vying for aural purity, sonic richness, longing to get lost in the drone, and musical representations of utopian oneness.

                            Utopia, like authoritarian fascism, mettles in the phenomenon of cultural symbiosis and uniformity.


                            so by wearing similar clothes, and listening to similar things, we are following the same authoritarian ideals as Hitler.

                            These generalisations can be applied to any group of people, any genre of music, any fashion. Then linking it into satanism because people like to wear black clothes is something straight out of 1980s fundamental christian satanic panic. Actually, a lot of the accusations in this article remind me of the language used during satanic panic, the satanic repetitive drumbeats hypnotising people, making them more suggestive to the hidden lyrics...

                            Once something is set in to repetitive formation varying components are forced to work as one. They never lose their place in line nor falter, and forsake their individuality. If a component falls out of line, it gets trampled.


                            This seems to imply that even the very repetitive structures used in ambient music are "authoritarian" as though somehow ambient musicians are inserting their fascist beliefs into their methods of constructing the music...except again, that can be applied to any and all genres, except perhaps Charles Ives' (et al) indeterminate music.

                            I'm amused that the request that people keep quiet at gigs so people can hear the music they've paid money to hear without having to listen to the conversations of those around them highlighted as being fascist. The author, I would imagine, has major issues with cinemas and art galleries as well.

                            Originally posted by Toaster
                            Toying with this sort of imagery is probably as old as fascism and naziism itself. Throbbing Grisltle at various points used it (the logo for their record label is a photo of Auschwitz) -- and various bands I have liked/admired the music of have some outright embarrassing fascinations. It's not too much of a stretch to ask artists to be responsible with imagery like that; it's a cheap shorthand that comes pre-loaded with controversy, like a child discovering swearing. The artists use shocking imagery to get attention, then when someone calls them on it, they dismiss it.


                            Toying with images of fascism does not make one a fascist however which is the general thrust of this article. Like dressing as Hitler at a halloween party. Tasteless, perhaps, but not necessarily indicative of your beliefs

                            Never mind all the contradictions and half truths, non sequiturs, twisted words, and disingenuous "you need to listen to what he didn't say"s in the rest of the article.
                            Last edited by iainx; 10-26-2015, 11:46 AM.
                            Ghost Signs - Ambient tape loops and guitars : https://ghostsigns.bandcamp.com https://soundcloud.com/xxiainxx http://facebook.com/xGhostSignsx

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by iainx View Post
                              "A number of decent points"
                              As I said, the article isn't the best written thing I have read; I'm specifically addressing the parts of it that talk about appropriating imagery. I'll easily leave the parts about 'these kids today all dress the same' off the table. When I was a young suburban punk, I spiked my hair, wore various bits of embarrassing clothing, and *fit right in* at shows at the VFW halls. For a genre of music that was constantly shouting at me to think for myself, a lot of us held frighteningly similar opinions and had similar taste in music, along with similar opinions about music that wasn't punk (SPOILER ALERT WE HATED IT). People with common interests band together; and, over time, a subculture will develop around that, which may or may not include some sort of 'look'. Meh.

                              Here's where we run into a problem:

                              Originally posted by iainx View Post
                              Toying with images of fascism does not make one a fascist however which is the general thrust of this article. Like dressing as Hitler at a halloween party. Tasteless, perhaps, but not necessarily indicative of your beliefs
                              No, but it does make you sort of a dumbass. If someone showed up to my fictional costume party dressed as Hitler, I'd at a minimum ask 'what the fuck are you thinking'. Certain imagery, certain words, and yes, certain articles of clothing have heavy connections to very unpleasant parts of history; using them for attention or as a means of shocking an audience is something we should have collectively outgrown by now. I'm not saying it's impossible to make good, thoughtful art about these things, but most people who engage in this sort of thing aren't doing it for that reason.

                              If you're using that imagery, I think it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask 'why?' And I think it's perfectly reasonable to demand to know why, and not allow someone to brush it aside with answers like 'they are just words' or 'it's just an image'. You're not breaking new ground by adding a swastika or totenkopf to your album art; and it's not 'bold'. It's a cheap shitty tactic to get attention.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X