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condensation - [keeping true to Eno ambient]

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  • annode
    started a topic condensation - [keeping true to Eno ambient]

    condensation - [keeping true to Eno ambient]

    Remastered the track tonight. How does it sound now? Was overly loud, hopefully fixed that now.
    Thanks much.

    Last edited by annode; 11-06-2017, 08:27 PM. Reason: remastered track

  • Sonic Bodhi
    replied
    Originally posted by TDP View Post
    Here's a link to the download page for the free 'dpMeter II' plugin that I use for checking the LUFS level.
    Set the Mode setting to 'EBU' to measure loudness in LUFS.
    The 'Integrated Loudness' LUFS reading is the averaged LUFS reading over a period of time.
    This is the LUFS reading that is of most use. My tune 'Harmonic Interference' averaged around -18 LUFS
    in the first half of the tune, and gradually climbed up to -17 LUFS (Integrated Loudness reading) by the end of the second half of the tune.
    http://www.tb-software.com/TBProAudio/dpmeter2.html
    TDP I got the same result using my Klangfreund LUFS meter: -18 LUFS and gradually shifting to -17.

    Leave a comment:


  • annode
    replied
    Originally posted by Sonic Bodhi View Post
    Yes, the volume level on this is much better now.. Also, for the sake of mastering, I sometimes use a loudness matching filter which is designed for the LUFS system. If the final product does not distort my iPad Pro speakers at their loudest setting, then I know I've succeeded in getting the right level. A lot of the tracks in here that probably sound great on expensive studio monitors, are mixed a bit too loud, in my opinion, and so I have to turn down my speakers, which sometimes (but not always) fixes it. Any way, took a second listen to this, and it's a really good piece!
    Thank you Sonic Bodhi.
    I did see the TB Pro Audio DP Meter filter curve choices. I only happen to understand them because my hand held decibel meter has this too.
    I know practically zip about metering schemes...and these meters look like they will have a steep learning curve in order to understand what I want and what I'm doing. haha
    I have a technical background so I'll figure it out. ;) The docs that come with each PB Pro meter only sort out some of the controls and such...not cool if you know practically nothing to begin with.

    I'm sure Ozone 6 has some sort of loudness meter I can use.
    The beginning of this track I'll imagine is about max loudness for this sort of stuff, and the rest falls into the quiet range. That may be fine, or maybe it can come up some.
    The contrast I believe may be too wide.

    Leave a comment:


  • annode
    replied
    Thanks for the link TDP. This is clearly no simple undertaking.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sonic Bodhi
    replied
    Yes, the volume level on this is much better now.. Also, for the sake of mastering, I sometimes use a loudness matching filter which is designed for the LUFS system. If the final product does not distort my iPad Pro speakers at their loudest setting, then I know I've succeeded in getting the right level. A lot of the tracks in here that probably sound great on expensive studio monitors, are mixed a bit too loud, in my opinion, and so I have to turn down my speakers, which sometimes (but not always) fixes it. Any way, took a second listen to this, and it's a really good piece!

    Leave a comment:


  • synkrotron
    replied
    Thanks, TDP

    Could you post this again over in the "A question of loudness" topic, as I think this is valuable information that will only get lost as Barry's song topic disappears from page 1 here.

    Cheers, and thanks,

    andy

    Leave a comment:


  • TDP
    replied
    Here's a link to the download page for the free 'dpMeter II' plugin that I use for checking the LUFS level.
    Set the Mode setting to 'EBU' to measure loudness in LUFS.
    The 'Integrated Loudness' LUFS reading is the averaged LUFS reading over a period of time.
    This is the LUFS reading that is of most use. My tune 'Harmonic Interference' averaged around -18 LUFS
    in the first half of the tune, and gradually climbed up to -17 LUFS (Integrated Loudness reading) by the end of the second half of the tune.
    http://www.tb-software.com/TBProAudio/dpmeter2.html
    Tools for music mixing,mastering and production
    Last edited by TDP; 11-07-2017, 01:12 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • synkrotron
    replied
    Ah, yes, I got the email about the latest Roach release. I will have to check that out. I do have another of his so I will open a few of those tracks in Sound Forge. I find it helps to look at the wave forms as well as listening.

    I opened your piece and also TDP's latest piece and it certainly looks to me like I am mixing too high, by comparison.

    All interesting stuff!

    Leave a comment:


  • annode
    replied
    Thanks for your help Andy, much appreciated.And thanks for the good music review on it too.
    Last time this was posted I used T-Racks 2 to master it, but I made it too loud and it sounded that way.
    This time I used Ozone 6 with a preset that included dynamic/EQ enhancement and as you can tell, it sounds pretty good.
    The only thing I didn't notice was it's volume level. It was louder then the original so I was happy with it and off it goes to SC. (I don't have internet on my music room PC so there is no easy level comparisons to others work)

    Anyway, here's what I'm fixing to do. I will surely look into the loudness scales.
    I recently purchased the Steve Roach-Jorge Reyes "Vines,Bark & Spore"(was on sale). First let me say, if you haven't heard it you HAVE TO HEAR THIS!!! It's ethno-tribal ambient. Every track is excellent. It is a master piece and I love listening to it. Now back to mastering. This "Projekt" Roach release is mastered perfectly IMO.There is percussion with long pads and just long ethereal soundscapes and the levels are always right there. I never have to fuss with my hi-fi system volume from track to track and it is still at a level I would use for most music. Now compare this recording with any mastered by Howard Givens at "Spotted Peccary". The levels Givens ends up with are way too quiet IMO. On the Givens masters the only sound that will come up to -3db or louder are sharp high pitched percussive sounds at their loudest. Everything else always sits pretty far down. Who know why he does it...I don't like it.

    So now that I have a good reference source, "Vine,Bark & Spore" I should be able to sort this whole mastering level thing out.
    I'll bring the levels up to match this Roach record and re-post.

    synkrotron - One thing about compression and ambient music...it's not just for compressing the peaks, I will use it often to bring up the floor only. This enhances the reverb and smooths out the background.
    Last edited by annode; 11-07-2017, 10:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • synkrotron
    replied
    Listening to Condensation now, Barry,

    I didn't download the original file so I cannot compare.

    But, anyway, I am not sure about the "loudness" thing, to be honest.

    Let me explain... With my own pieces, I do not compress or limit at all, lately, and therefore I try to always preserve dynamics of a piece, within reason. If I feel that there are parts that are just too quiet, or too loud, compared to the rest of the piece I will alter the dynamics by using automation to alter levels, rather than applying compression.

    I haven't got into the LUFS thing yet and I am still using the K level system, usually K12, even though that may be considered to be too loud for ambient. The reason I have been using the K12 system is because when I listen to other ambient pieces, on SoundCloud, after listening to one of my own tracks, my piece is still quieter, so I am thinking that I am okay with regards to loudness. Regarding "rogue peaks," I always ensure that any peaks to not go over -1.0 ~ -0.8 dB. And even though that, too, may sound "loud," it seems to work for me. At least, no one has commented on any of my creations as being mixed too hot.

    So, back to the "loudness" thing, is it not all relative to what you may be listening to at the time? If you are having to reach for your sound system's volume control to change listening levels between tracks, and they are all supposed to be of the same genre, then I would question the finishing/mastering of those tracks.


    Back to Condensation, which has nearly finished now, and I love this piece. I agree with the comments of aoVI , 100 percent... And the length is just perfect.


    cheers

    andy

    Leave a comment:


  • annode
    replied
    Originally posted by aoVI View Post
    I can't comment as to whether the remaster sounds better, but it does sound good.

    I like pieces like this, long gradual changes in texture, elements, focus, but never straying too far from a core feel. As John Peel once said of The Fall, "always different, always the same". Bears listening closely and floating freely above it.
    Damn it, I've forgotten your name. I hate that!
    Very eloquently put, as they say. Yes, using just a few elements can have power. Notes rather then chords. Just a few select sounds w flirting with texture, singing now and then in an open space.

    I just listened to a TDP track he has up now and it's much louder them mine and still sounds good.
    I just don't pay attention to the meter as I much as I should. In the studio I don't notice it's very quiet, or I put it in a mastering standalone and I notice it had become too loud after getting it on Soundcloud.
    Someone at TDP's post mentioned his track was averaging -18LUFS. I read that somewhere else too concerning ambient.
    I need to look into that and try this again.

    Thanks much for that feedback aoVI
    Barry.

    Leave a comment:


  • aoVI
    replied
    I can't comment as to whether the remaster sounds better, but it does sound good.

    I like pieces like this, long gradual changes in texture, elements, focus, but never straying too far from a core feel. As John Peel once said of The Fall, "always different, always the same". Bears listening closely and floating freely above it.

    Leave a comment:


  • annode
    replied
    Remastered the track tonight. How does it sound now? Was overly loud, hopefully fixed that now.
    Thanks much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sonic Bodhi
    replied
    Nice work on this track!

    Originally posted by seismic1 View Post

    I think it's possible. I was going to wait until things settle down before messing with the stuff that currently works. I'm hoping to have beatport, mixlr and mixcloud embeds working this weekend. Now where are those damn smileys?
    I can see wanting a bit smaller widget for SoundCloud, but personally, I'd like a bandcamp widget that's a little bigger than the starkly minimalistic one for individual tracks, if that's possible- more like the hearthis.at widget. Could that be done, seismic1?
    Last edited by Sonic Bodhi; 06-24-2017, 12:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • synkrotron
    replied
    Very nice piece of work this Barry :-)

    Leave a comment:

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