Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Food for thought music creation and business related articles

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Food for thought music creation and business related articles

    I ran across the site of Benedict Roff-Marsh, a home producer. His site not only included his new music release packaged with a group of Synth Edit VST plugins, it also has various commentary about some of the common concerns of home artists creating music and wanting to make a little scratch from it also.
    I found his articles refreshing and maybe they will stimulate conversation in this thread.

    https://benedictroffmarsh.com/
    - a unique way to market your music. ;)
    http://www.kvraudio.com/product/spac...ict-roff-marsh
    Last edited by annode; 06-15-2018, 12:06 PM.
    "The dumbest of people are the first to tell you."annode
    My Music

  • #2
    Nice share seems interesting.

    /Dan
    Regards, Dan Stanley of imogen projekt.
    Ableton Live, Cockos Reaper, Omnisphere, Sampler, Kontakt
    https://splice.com/spicygod

    Comment


    • #3
      Packaging home made Synthedit VST with your Bandcamp music release got my attention right away as being a very unique incentive to purchase.
      He even says, the music can be viewed as the demo for the VST or the music comes with the VST...sorta like the prize in a box of cereal.
      All this was interesting, but what really enticed me to make this post were the articles just after "Space Case - Supporting Stuff".
      The first one "An Unpaid Update - Money & the Muso" where he talks about (with graphs) his 8.5 yr experience as an artist at Bandcamp and his disappointment with how little money he made during that period.

      It had me thinking about the way things used to be with radio. An artist/band gets a song played and that generates interest, or not...if so, listeners call in making requests for the song and the station reciprocates by playing it more. More people in turn hear it and start buying it. It's a cycle that doesn't seem to have a counter these days.
      Yes I know...we are considering electronic/ambient music here and the above example was more for popular music, but let's try to extrapolate anyway.

      Benedict Roff-Marsh is using his releases showing poor sales at Bandcamp and CD Baby as his example.His quality of music is lower then say Steve Roach, that goes for about everyone else as well, but what if an ambient artist's music was up to snuff with Steve Roach, how much impact would it really have on sales? Steve has been accumulating his fans for decades, but let's assume you made one Bandcamp release only and the ambient music was killer, what impact on sale would that have?
      Ok, now you have that one important element, high quality music...what is your next element...looking for a label?...going to Spotify?
      If you ask Benedict Roff-Marsh he will tell you his music is pretty high quality...as he does say in the article...but how do you know if you music is worth more then the response you are getting?

      99.9% of us are just happy to get a thumbs up when we post what we have made after a night's work...but for the sake of discussion, I made this post to ask questions like the above point and talk about it.
      The other articles below that one look thought provoking as well, although I haven't gotten to read them just yet.
      Last edited by annode; 06-15-2018, 04:48 PM.
      "The dumbest of people are the first to tell you."annode
      My Music

      Comment


      • #4
        I have known of Benedict Roff-Marsh over the net for ages. I don't think his music is particularly exceptional, it's just average to good. His income off Bandcamp is way better than mine. I've made nothing from netsales. Everything (well, 99%) I have made has been commissions.
        There is no market for average to good music. Never has been in my lifetime anyway. Commercial musical careers have always been about having a product to sell - that product being both music and artist, where the artist has to have something marketable over and above the music - , style, looks, endurance whatever.

        The internet is filled with merchants of snake-oil, shysters, hucksters and financiers - it has been of marginal benefit to most artists working outside the very narrow mainstream
        SOUNDCLOUD https://soundcloud.com/greghooper
        SPOTIFY https://open.spotify.com/artist/6cbbq2ZO0cjaKXquorwchW

        Comment


        • #5
          There is no market for average to good music.
          I'd say that's a quotable statement. Also leaving bad taste out of the equation, but no one has that...

          I think the first necessary element to marketable music is wanting to hear it again. Bandcamp's popup appearing after approximately a full listen or so demonstrates that idea.
          If by that time we want to hear the music again, we'll have to "Open Thy Wallet"...and I'm all for that. That's the idea.
          I heard John Lennon say once while being interviewed by Dick Cavett "You don't hear music, you feel it". Well, I can understand that idea perfectly. Some electronic/ambient music makes you feel something but keeps you there. Others`may take you to someplace and you like taking the journey. When I first heard Thom Brennan's "Beneath Clouds" I totally lost my mind. haha That piece just says to you "Now that I have your attention, I'm going to take you to this place and we'll spend a little time there together".
          The music just holds you there, then it let's you slowly leave. The journey styles are ever changing. They avoid giving it all to you at once. That's a composition no-no. Take the listener on a journey to nowhere. Building the musical journey is not easy to do. I believe that's where most ppl fail. We are all too anxious to produce the music we don't take the time with it to fully develop the journey. That's fine of course if your doing it for just the pleasure of it. But this topic is about the sale.
          Like a new romance, neither person should unveil themselves all at once.
          "The dumbest of people are the first to tell you."annode
          My Music

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by annode View Post

            The music just holds you there, then it let's you slowly leave. The journey styles are ever changing. They avoid giving it all to you at once. That's a composition no-no. Take the listener on a journey to nowhere. Building the musical journey is not easy to do. I believe that's where most ppl fail. We are all too anxious to produce the music we don't take the time with it to fully develop the journey. That's fine of course if your doing it for just the pleasure of it. But this topic is about the sale.
            Like a new romance, neither person should unveil themselves all at once.
            well put - the analogy I tend to use is "turn on the tap then turn it off" - like all this stuff just gushes out until it stops

            also re hear it again - exactly and that makes life for the artists particularly difficult now when one can easily hear something similar or in the same style so easily, so quickly and for free
            Last edited by GregH; 06-15-2018, 08:55 PM.
            SOUNDCLOUD https://soundcloud.com/greghooper
            SPOTIFY https://open.spotify.com/artist/6cbbq2ZO0cjaKXquorwchW

            Comment


            • #7
              I would say this means that, as a society, we need to work towards a new model of rewarding creators for their work. I'm not sure how to do this, especially in the post-YouTube-demonetization era, but something needs to change.

              Also, with all the automation and growing AI applications, I think we need to move to a Universal Basic Income system. Once we can be assured our basic needs are met, we can focus on creating art, without needing to take monetization into account.
              https://ablaut.bandcamp.com/ | https://hearthis.at/ablaut/ | https://soundcloud.com/ablauto

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ablaut View Post
                I would say this means that, as a society, we need to work towards a new model of rewarding creators for their work. I'm not sure how to do this, especially in the post-YouTube-demonetization era, but something needs to change.

                Also, with all the automation and growing AI applications, I think we need to move to a Universal Basic Income system. Once we can be assured our basic needs are met, we can focus on creating art, without needing to take monetization into account.

                agree ablaut - I've long been a proponent of some sort of universal income guarantee. All that stands between us and a better future is the allocation of power to the greediest
                SOUNDCLOUD https://soundcloud.com/greghooper
                SPOTIFY https://open.spotify.com/artist/6cbbq2ZO0cjaKXquorwchW

                Comment


                • #9
                  Should we have a 'cut-out bin' at Bandcamp? (Record stores owned their inventory. When the inventory didn't sell, it went to a discount section.)
                  The music that is for sale but isn't selling is moved to another section and becomes free or discounted. This would narrow down the inventory leaving the most popular selling music up front. What this does is let the buyer choose (by sales) the best music from each category/genre/style, while moving the least popular away from sight. Unless a customer wants to go into the 'cut-out bin' section, all that music is no longer mixed in with the better music.
                  This could be further incentive for the artist to make better music, and is much better for the artist, Bandcamp and the music collector.

                  EDIT - Bandcamp sorta has a system like this now where you choose the genre and it shows you the top 100 or so selling releases. Is this good enough?
                  Last edited by annode; 06-18-2018, 09:47 AM.
                  "The dumbest of people are the first to tell you."annode
                  My Music

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That takes away the beauty of BC, imo. Not copying that structure makes it a more level playing field, it also give smaller artist a chance to be discovered, while it doesn’t give the popular and established artists any disadvantages. Also, should bc kick out artists that don’t sell enough after they’re sold under priced against their will in the ‘bargain bin’? I really cannot see any benefits to this at all...
                    Last edited by Jan Roos; 06-18-2018, 10:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So you would be fine auditioning peoples music on Bandcamp at random. Opening a category like ambient and just randomly listening to releases one after the other after the other after the other until you finally hear something you like...or maybe you never hear anything you like. Do you have hours on end to listen to endless music?
                      EDIT - I just noticed @ Bandcamps front page/top 100 section(that's what I'll call it for lack of a better name) has added sub-genres to the ambient genre! Nice. I haven't noticed that before now.

                      I want to audition ambient music @ Bandcamp I go there.
                      I have a few favorite radio broadcasts(w/living DJ/programmer) where I hear the best of the best music. Hearts of Space is a fave, for example.
                      The programmer choose through the best quality music in a given category and takes the best from those and it goes over the air/net to my ears.
                      This is the selectivity I'm taking about. If your an artist and make high quality music the programmer will see you and put you out there and that hopefully will be reflected in a jump in sales, and if @ Bandcamp, it will go up in the charts and more people will hear it.
                      Last edited by annode; 06-18-2018, 11:00 AM.
                      "The dumbest of people are the first to tell you."annode
                      My Music

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I never listen for hours, if an album is obviously crappy, I don’t listen to the whole thing before moving on. There’s so many other ways to do this: Search filters with options for
                        - genres at granular levels.
                        - Albums by user reviews or other reviews
                        - Music by rating
                        - New releases
                        - Music by listeners that you follow
                        - Most sold in the genre
                        - New releases in the genre
                        - Music by ratio of good reviews and low sales/exposure (makes it possible to discover new quality music)
                        - Music with high rating and sales within genre
                        Bandcamp has several functions they vould build on, like recomendations.
                        Assuming there’s an automatic correlation between sales numbers and quality is where you’re missing the point. An established ambient artist may release a weak album and still sell much more than an unknown artist releasing a masterpiece. Your suggestion strengthen that trend even more, not securing exposure to quality content, but often securing the marginalisation of high quality, but unknown, releases so that the well knowns can take centre stage with formulaic mediocre releases (and the occational good one)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, filters...
                          - the label who selects only the talent they want to represent them.
                          - the distributor who presents the labels as well as the independents in specific categories and hierarchies.
                          - the radio service who chooses those from the above who they feel best represent their format and serve their audience.

                          Making sound that can be posted to a server site doesn't make an artist be.
                          If one has the talent and skills and does the work, they get heard.
                          Making some of your statements don't make it true. I don't agree with your statements, but we are getting off the mark here...the subject is about achieving sales in the ambient market.
                          "The dumbest of people are the first to tell you."annode
                          My Music

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by annode View Post
                            Yes, filters...
                            - the label who selects only the talent they want to represent them.
                            - the distributor who presents the labels as well as the independents in specific categories and hierarchies.
                            - the radio service who chooses those from the above who they feel best represent their format and serve their audience.

                            Making sound that can be posted to a server site doesn't make an artist be.

                            Agree. But it´s just as true for music released through the channels you mentioned. Doesn´t make an artist be. There´s so much crap out there to prove that. There´s far less money in record sales, so they play safe.

                            If one has the talent and skills and does the work, they get heard.

                            Not true. You might, you might not. There are plenty of super talented artists selling way less than mediocre or even really bad ones. We´re drowning in content online, and quality doesn´t automatically float to the surface more than crap. Add to that the experimental (and sometimes pretentious) side of the genre, and you have a situation where quality release after quality release may go almost unnoticed.

                            Making some of your statements don't make it true. I don't agree with your statements, but we are getting off the mark here...the subject is about achieving sales in the ambient market.
                            And that´s the subject we´re discussing.
                            What the point of writing "Making some of your statements don't make it true" is, I have no idea. That´s true in general, including many of your own statements. It´s different perspectives on the same theme, that´s all. The old model your referencing to is pretty much gone. The gatekeepers role? Gone or at least marginalised. People decide for theme selves what they like. Artists release their art without these gatekeepers. What is art and what is not art is, of course, subjective. Production value and sound quality, less so.
                            I don´t agree with most of your statements either. That statement in itself is not an argument, neither does it shed any light on the subject.
                            But agreeing to disagree is perfectly fine for me.

                            My guess is that ambient music, outside of a small hardcore fan base who actively search for it, needs the same thing surrounding their brand as other genres; marketing, a clear identity, visual appeal, luck, right time and place, something that intrigues the potential fan, something that connects to emotions or identity so it sticks with them in the maelstrom of distractions that is everywhere. All this costs time and money and takes very specific skills to pull off. In a genre like ambient, that´s just not happening, it´s a hard thing to pull of even in calculated pop music.
                            The biggest ambient artists often got their break before the state of the current music industry, 70s, 80s and 90s. And people stay with them and often ignore a thriving 2018 scene.
                            That said, I am sure there is an untapped potential in ambient music. But it has to become more externally available, find ways to connect to people. Then again, if the goal is achieving sales, ambient is not the best genre. Unless you are lucky or have a lot of free time/money for marketing it´s probably gonna cost more than you get back in sales by far. I´d use my time on blogs and reviewers, building my own brand, not marginalising the lesser known artists by slamming them into a virtual "bargain bin".
                            Last edited by Jan Roos; 06-18-2018, 01:44 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree with Jan Roos - I dont see why there would be a positive relationship between strong sales and quality for interesting music, there never has been in the past in other genres. The online space is a heavily commercial space and needs the same sorts of effort as any other commercial space. An effort I certainly am not willing to make. Personally - looking back from the days of earliest dial up - I wish I had never spent so much time using IT and being online. Personal relationships are everything - for career and for happiness - and IT displaces those relationships with other forms of sociality. Broadly speaking I am now of the view that, overall, the IT industry has been a disaster but we are stuck with it and will just have to see where it leads
                              SOUNDCLOUD https://soundcloud.com/greghooper
                              SPOTIFY https://open.spotify.com/artist/6cbbq2ZO0cjaKXquorwchW

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X